Dusted Features Dusted's Sam Hunt talks to All Tomorrows Parties meta-curator Barry Hogan about the past, present and future of one of music's most impressive institutions.

Tomorrow's Parties Today

It is thought by many that the best and most reliable source from which one can learn about music is not from critics, but from musicians or other creative minds. Likewise, the same such minds are often a much more reliable source for judging the retrospective worth and importance of musical acts, regardless of things like popularity and exposure. Indeed, many of the most admirable and successful signings and reissue campaigns have been spearheaded by musicians looking to honor those who they consider to be most influential or promising. And while it has often been stated that “record collectors don’t belong in bands,” I’ve often found the contrary to be true; Nearly all of the bands and songwriters that I consider to be the most unique, captivating, and significant have all proven themselves to be impressively well-versed in music’s history as well as its present.

The All Tomorrow’s Parties festival, which invites one band or individual to “curate” three days worth of musical acts, serves both to honor the curating act as well as allowing said act to honor much of the music that it finds to be most important. It’s an impressive idea on paper, but in practice its results are astounding. The first few ATP’s were held (and continue to be held) on a beachside family-style resort about an hour south of London. Its curators have included Tortoise, Shellac, Mogwai and Sonic Youth. Performers have included Wire, Mission of Burma, Television, Boards of Canada, Cannibal Ox, Yo La Tengo, Eddie Vedder, Cat Power, Will Oldham, Calexico, Stephen Malkmus, Wilco, Godspeed You Black Emperor!, Sun Ra’s Arkestra, and many more. Bands such as Sigur Ros, Black Dice, Erase Eratta and Radian were invited to perform well before they received their due recognition, and bands such as Wire and Television reunited specifically for the purpose of playing the festival and re-according respect to their invitees. The first ever U.S. ATP, curated by Sonic Youth, was held this past March in Los Angeles on the UCLA campus. Next year, in addition to ATP U.K. number four (curated by Autechre) and ATP L.A. number two (curated by Matt Groening!), ATP will expand again to Asbury Park, New Jersey, where Stephen Malkmus will curate.

While arranging such a festival (or three of them) probably seems like a logistical nightmare for even a large-scale booking agency or promotions company, All Tomorrow’s Parties is, for the most part, a two-person operation. Barry Hogan, ATP’s founder and irreverent leader, recently took some time to chat (via e-mail) about all things ATP.

Sam Hunt: How did ATP get started? I know that it had something to do with Belle and Sebastian's "Bowlie Weekend," but how did you become involved?

Barry Hogan:Yes, I was the promoter for Belle and Sebastian in England and they asked me about doing an event in a holiday camp because the lead singer Stuart Murdoch worked in one when he was younger. They wanted to invite all the bands they liked and stage an event. I think in fairness it was an idea that was from their side that needed fine-tuning, and I was able to execute it so it didn't turn into a mess. It was developed by both of us. Belle and Sebastian wanted the event to be unique so they didn't want to continue doing it themselves. I thought the event had a lot of scope and wanted to continue it so I renamed it and got rid of the bedwetters who B+S seem to attract and focused on inviting a curator, which seems to have taken off.

SH: What were you doing before you started doing ATP stuff? How did you get started in the music business in the first place?

BH: I was a prostitute – no, seriously, I managed a really crap band and couldn't get them a gig anywhere, so I put the gigs on myself and wormed my way into booking out a venue in London called Dingwalls. But that was tedious so I started Foundation (Hogan's concert promotion company) so I could promote only bands that I like.

SH: Is it a full time job for you? Do you have any employees?

BH: Yes, it’s a full time job, It’s me and Helen (Cottage). Basically, we employ a production manager for each event. Helen takes care of ticketing, invoices, and all the administrative stuff and I take care of marketing, booking acts, overseeing production and writing the web site.

SH: How do you go about choosing the curators? Has anyone ever declined an opportunity to curate? Who is high on your wish list for future curators?

BH: I try to pick people who will have interesting line ups and not pick cunts like Blur or fucking Fatboy Slim. We did ask Vincent Gallo to curate, but we couldn't agree on money. I really respect Vincent, but he drives a hard bargain - dunno why. I helped get him signed to Warp - although he probably won't thank me for that, and he is bloody rich so it's not like he needs the cash. No one has really declined so far, but I am sure the backlash is on the horizon. I just want to keep inviting people who will endorse what we do and will be someone I want to invite. For example, hell would have to freeze over before I invited the Strokes because bands like that are so hyped and their record collections probably consist of shit like the compilation of Music used in Levi's commericals or Now That's What I Call Trendy 22, which is not what I want.

SH: How does the selection process actually work? I imagine there is a good amount of whittling that goes on, but do you actually contact ALL of the people on a band's list?

BH: Yes, I get the curator to gimme a list and then I have to edit it to make sure Elliott Smith is not on there, as he hates me, and also advise on people we think are suitable for the event and making sure nothing crap is on there and bands that are not gonna want too much money. But yeah, I book every single act - except on the Shellac one, where Steve Albini booked 95% of the acts as he wanted to do that.

SH: How much say do you have in choosing bands for the festival? Have you ever had to put your foot down and refuse to book a band or an act? I know that a lot of people were surprised to see Eddie Vedder, for example.

BH: God yeah - I am into most lists, but I won't feel comfortable with bands that are, well, just shit. Like if someone asked for Oasis, they'd have to go or the curator would be told to get a life. I thought Eddie Vedder was a strange choice, but his solo stuff is different than Pearl Jam and Kim and Thurston of Sonic Youth are very good friends of his and do dig his music. He was such a lovely guy and he hinted at curating an ATP. His taste in music is really good as he really likes Slint and Dirty 3 etc. etc., but the scary thought is Pearl Jam playing ATP, which would not work. Maybe we should ask him - that would freak everyone out!

SH: Is ATP profitable?

BH: Yes, but only now as the first few years it wasn't because we made a few mistakes. Now we have it running like clockwork, so yes, and if it wasn't I wouldn't do it. I have invested every penny I ever made in ATP, all of which was made from serious hard work. Some indie bedwetters have condemned me for making money; It’s OK for them to make a living, but I can't? People who come out with shit like that should be boiled in acid.

SH: How did organizing ATP in the U.S. compare with doing it in the U.K.? Obviously the logistics of the venues were different, but did you find that "selling" the festival as a single event (rather than as a bunch of separate concerts with the same affiliation) was more difficult? It seems that, except for isolated tours, the U.S. is less apt to buy into the idea of a festival concert, or something that can really turn out to be greater than the sum of its parts.

BH: I think it was difficult in L.A. because the venues in my eyes were too far apart and in the U.K. they were basically a set of stairs apart. It was difficult because the people in L.A. are so slow at buying tickets and they only seem interested in celebrity. No one really goes to gigs unless it's a hot band. The amount of shows I saw in LA where there was no one there was disturbing and films would be lifted out of cinemas after one week if they weren't selling as many tickets as Spiderman or Harry Potter. A lot of people would just bang on about seeing film stars like Courtney Cox or Tom Cruise walking the streets and not give two fucks about anything else. So yeah, it was hard to sell tickets and everyone wanted to get in free. It makes me laugh when you get assholes at Warner Brothers phoning up and saying that John Frusiciante from the Chili Peppers wanted to come to the event - could we put him on the guest list? - I mean what is he on?! He has sold around 20 million records and the tight fuck won't buy a ticket. We are making changes because some people complained that they paid just to see Eddie Vedder and weren't happy they couldn't get in and didn't want to see Bardo Pond. I think we will have the future bills more structured on balance and about great music and not about huge headliners who will ask for too much money.

SH: On that note, why do you think (bigger) festivals are such a big deal in the U.K. (or in Europe as a whole) and not in the U.S.?

BH: Because people in the U.K. live for music and they look forward to the summer events. I think the U.S. takes it for granted as I have noticed that a lot of times when bands go out on tour the bills are pretty strong and you have been used to that for years. In the U.K. the festivals are when we get decent bills - well at least at ATP, not at bullshit festivals like V2002 which is like "MTV Presents" and has more sponsors than the Strokes have zits

SH: What's it like working with Matt Groening? While he is certainly a legend in the television business, his music experience is fairly mysterious. Are you surprised by his taste or his choices? Is he as funny as one would imagine?

BH: Matt is an ideal curator as his line up is going to work perfectly in the realms of what we doing. He really understood what we are trying to achieve and has an amazing record collection which we will be revealing shortly. He is totally supportive of ATP and he is a really down to earth guy. Yes, he is funny too and he has drawn a great image of himself for the poster art.

SH: What kind of role will he (Groening) play during the festival itself?

BH: We are going to ask him to do the guest list on Friday and then on Saturday he is going to run the bar :). No, seriously, he will be checking the bands out and enjoying himself (I hope), but I am sure that he, like myself, will be doing endless interviews.

SH: ATP has hosted many bands who rarely perform or are no longer together (Television, Boards of Canada, Mission of Burma, Wire, etc). Who does the coaxing in these cases, the bands or you?

BH: Moi - except Mission of Burma who Bob Weston approached. I remember when Shellac got all excited about them playing ATP and said "guess who we have asked to play?" and I was like "who?" and they said "Mission of Burma" and I was like "who the hell are they?!" I admit I had no idea until Shellac put me on to them because I was 9 when they broke up and they never played the U.K. and you had more chance of George Bush saying something intelligent than finding one of their records over here.

SH: How is everything going with the Autechre ATP? Were you surprised to see acts like The Fall on their wanted list? Were there any groups that they requested that caught you by surprise?

BH: No, I knew Sean and Rob from Autechre were big Fall fans. But they asked Earth to play – you know, that band on Sub Pop? – who I didn't expect them to like. But they do really like 'em. The U.K. ATP is going really well – we have sold 600 tickets already and haven't even advertised yet, which is great. But it will be totally different line-up and style of music from the Shellac event this year, which keeps the event fresh as it’s always evolving.

SH: Do you think that the Malkmus ATP will be able to recapture the drunken summer camp mood of the U.K. ATPs? How self-sufficient/isolated is the venue? That is, do you think most people will come for the whole weekend (rather than going back to NYC each night)?

BH: The venue in NYC is all under one roof and there are 3 spaces and we are going to offer fans the chance to buy rooms in all the hotels across the road from the venue and I expect their will be plenty of drunken antics as we are running a club night in the hotel across the road that will go until 5 a.m. with the bar running dead late too!

SH: Has there been any talk of Pavement playing this show?

BH: I doubt it as I get the impression Stephen and Scott don't see eye to eye

SH: Who in the music business do you admire most these days?

BH: Ben Drury - who does our design. He is ahead of his time. Jim O'Rourke; John Silva who manages Sonic Youth and the Beastie Boys and who was very helpful with ATP L.A.; John French of the Magic Band; Simon Halliday of Warp Records U.K.

SH: Who do you admire least?

BH: Tom Verlaine because I got Television to reform and he was obnoxious to deal with. He is just rude, so basically I don't want to have to deal with him again. People who ask for guest list all the time...

SH: I know you're usually too busy to appreciate anything while the festival is actually going on, but what's the best act you've seen perform at ATP?

BH: There have been so many that I couldn't list just one but the following bands blew my mind: Black Dice, Boredoms, Shellac (every time), Sonic Youth, The For Carnation, and Tortoise.

SH: Who would play at Barry Hogan's ATP?

BH: Tindersticks, Archie Shepp, Nina Simone, Love, Pharoah Sanders, Flaming Lips, Echo and the Bunnymen (only if they played the material from 1st three LPs), Au Pairs, Public Enemy, Reflection Eternal, J-Live, Ween, ESG, Codeine, Califone, labradford, A Silver Mount Zion, Neil Young and Crazy Horse, Fuxa, Liquid Liquid, Vincent Gallo, Thurston Moore solo, Silver Jews, Sam Prekop Band, Set Fire to Flames, Black Dice, OOIOO, Russell Haswell, American Analog Set, Model 500, Carl Craig, Bardo Pond, Shellac, The For Carnation, Tortoise, Boards of Canada, Underground Resistance, Claude Young, The Durutti Column, Funkadelic, Steve Reich doing Music for 18 Musicians, Black Heart Procession, Letter E, Threnody Ensemble, Jim O'Rourke.

SH: Any final thoughts?

BH: Yeah we are doing an ATP in Japan - its most likely to happen in 2004 but after that we are not adding any more or it will be just like fucking Burger King and we will be everywhere.

For more information about All Tomorrow's Parties you can visit their website at www.alltomorrowsparties.co.uk.

By Sam Hunt

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